A Lam Shin (KOR) distraught after losing in overtime.

Controversy broke out at the second semi-final match in the Women’s Individual Epee event at the conclusion of the bout between Britta Heidemann (GER) and A Lam Shin (KOR). A protest over the timekeeping has stalled out the Olympic event and Shin is left to wait on strip while the formal protest is decided on.

The bout had gone to a 5-5 tie in regulation and Shin was awarded priority for the overtime minute. According to the FIE and Olympic rules for fencing, the overtime is sudden death – meaning that a one-light hit decides the match. If no touch is scored during that minute, then the fencer with priority wins the bout.

During the minute Heidemann pressed and pushed Shin back to her end of the strip, but every time that the 2008 Gold Medalist launched an attack, Shin was ready with a counter – causing double-touches that are thrown out in overtime.

Finally, there was only one second left and Shin was backed up at the end of the strip. Heidemann would have only one chance to score the winning touch.

She got 4. On the last touch, Heidemann would score.

This brought out the Korean coach who lodged a formal protest. How could a fencer launch that many attacks – double-touch actions – within one second of fencing time?

The timing mechanism for fencing only displays whole seconds and even the logs displaying the score and time only show whole seconds, not tenths or hundredths. Added to that, in one of the breaks the timer mistakenly started the clock, so it had to be reset back to one second. (Again, there is no provision or way to set the clock for a fraction of a second and no method of review to determine the time.)

Britta Heidemann (GER) on scoring the eventual winning touch

After a long delay for the protest, Shin was escorted off of the strip by two officials. The decision would stand and Shin will have to contend for the bronze. Heidemann will go on to compete for the Gold medal.

Korea’s coach looks on as officials decide his fencer’s

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94 Comments

  • Brian Gilchrist, July 30, 2012 @ 7:26 pm

    Time to start measuring in tenths of a second!

  • Brian Gilchrist, July 30, 2012 @ 7:26 pm

    Time to start measuring in tenths of a second!

  • Brian Gilchrist, July 30, 2012 @ 7:26 pm

    Time to start measuring in tenths of a second!

  • Ned Kalapasev, July 30, 2012 @ 7:31 pm

    Agree! Every other sport keeps time to tenths even hundredth of a second, why not fencing

  • Ned Kalapasev, July 30, 2012 @ 7:31 pm

    Agree! Every other sport keeps time to tenths even hundredth of a second, why not fencing

  • Matthew Koogler, July 30, 2012 @ 7:45 pm

    Ugh, that poor woman. Even the gods try to screw up fencing with inane rules…

  • Mi Jang, July 30, 2012 @ 7:54 pm

    SHAME ON YOU HEIDEMANN

  • Anna Du, July 30, 2012 @ 7:54 pm

    This is pretty sad….

  • Matthew Koogler, July 30, 2012 @ 7:56 pm

    Shame on the bout committee and the referees. The bout was Shin's but they will never admit it. The FIE is determined to implode.

  • Matthew Koogler, July 30, 2012 @ 7:56 pm

    Shame on the bout committee and the referees. The bout was Shin's but they will never admit it. The FIE is determined to implode.

  • Slawomir Jacek Koronkiewicz, July 30, 2012 @ 8:05 pm

    this is ridiculous! how can one second last 4 seconds? if double-touches continued on…. one second would last even longer! It is the time that's crucial here… and it is ONE second.

  • Quan Pham, July 30, 2012 @ 9:03 pm

    Shades of 1972 Olympics all over again. May be technology has advanced to the point where a clock can be wired to the referee's commands of Allez and Halt to cut out the human error factor. Being a timer at a past Olympic I can understand how the mistake was made by the timer. I can see the referee's and bout committee's side and I my heart goes out to Shin. No doubt a black eye for the FIE and the Olympics. It's truly unfortunate for a very good competition so far.

  • Quan Pham, July 30, 2012 @ 9:03 pm

    Shades of 1972 Olympics all over again. May be technology has advanced to the point where a clock can be wired to the referee's commands of Allez and Halt to cut out the human error factor. Being a timer at a past Olympic I can understand how the mistake was made by the timer. I can see the referee's and bout committee's side and I my heart goes out to Shin. No doubt a black eye for the FIE and the Olympics. It's truly unfortunate for a very good competition so far.

  • Lorna Rivera, July 30, 2012 @ 10:16 pm

    Que evaluen est decision por eso se graban los asaltos esto no es un juego eatupido es el resultados de anos de preparacion de un atleta y quedan en ridiculo

  • Lorna Rivera, July 30, 2012 @ 10:16 pm

    Que evaluen est decision por eso se graban los asaltos esto no es un juego eatupido es el resultados de anos de preparacion de un atleta y quedan en ridiculo

  • Claudia Boldt McIntyre, July 30, 2012 @ 10:45 pm

    It not Britta Heidemanns fault!

  • Claudia Boldt McIntyre, July 30, 2012 @ 10:45 pm

    It not Britta Heidemanns fault!

  • Vivikta Cicero, July 30, 2012 @ 11:44 pm

    Racists.

  • Mi Jang, July 31, 2012 @ 1:22 am

    i think her attitude was also shameful. she should have kept the rules. In the last(4th) allez she didn't keep the regulation distance even thought the referees and Shim kept appealing about that. Moreover, I think she knew that was a bad decision. But she seemed JUST very happy after the wrong decision. It showed the lack of sportsmanship. What was worse, in the interview just after the game, she told that there was no problem in the decision. This is ugly anyway.

  • Mi Jang, July 31, 2012 @ 1:23 am

    i think her attitude was also shameful. she should have kept the rules. In the last(4th) allez she didn't keep the regulation distance even though the referees and Shim kept appealing about that. Moreover, I think she knew that was a bad decision. But she seemed JUST very happy after the wrong decision. It showed the lack of sportsmanship. What was worse, in the interview just after the game, she told that there was no problem in the decision. This is ugly anyway.

  • Matthew Koogler, July 31, 2012 @ 1:24 am

    Mi Jang i defy anyone to be ashamed to get silver or gold at the olympics.

  • Mi Jang, July 31, 2012 @ 1:45 am

    yeah but only in the case that that is the right medal. Look at the Japanese athlete in Judo. He won the game by controversial decision too. But his face was filled with a doubt not a delight. I think this is the right attitude that an athlete with sportsmanship should show

  • Matthew Koogler, July 31, 2012 @ 1:50 am

    If you agree to participate in the competition, you agree to use the referees and the equipment as well. Sure there is controversy, but you do what you can within the game and the people involved. I feel bad for the Japanese man. He won at the Olympics and he didn't cheat I presume? Same for Heidemann. Heidemann didn't cheat. Why apologize for victory?

  • Mi Jang, July 31, 2012 @ 2:31 am

    I think breaking the rule is cheating. What do yo think the cheating is? (and the Japanese guy didn't even cheat. I can tell He is much better athlete in various respects)

  • Matthew Koogler, July 31, 2012 @ 2:35 am

    who cheated?

  • Rudy Volkmann, July 31, 2012 @ 2:40 am

    The problem is that the time is started by a timer (there is a delay in this), but stopped by the machine at the hit. As I recall, there was a team sabre bout in Sydney that had an awful lot of hits in something like 9 seconds for the same reason.

  • Samuel Gallagher Pelletier, July 31, 2012 @ 2:46 am

    I think there was a sever lack of sportsman ship from brita,she bent her arm and stood really close and pretty much didnt listen to the judge when the judge said distance, granted the judge should have been more authoritative , she ran like a coward after. and those screams were not necessary , thats my 2 cents.

  • Matthew Koogler, July 31, 2012 @ 2:48 am

    Don't open the screams can of worms :) Screams are here to stay and always will be, esp. at higher levels. "Ran like a coward?" After the bout? How? And really you said it all: The judge should have been more authoritative. Remember how I said everyone agreed to play the game with the same ref?….

  • Samuel Gallagher Pelletier, July 31, 2012 @ 2:52 am

    Im not dissing the scream, every fencer does it, She just left, hardly a salute or anything… I just really think Korea should have won….

  • Matthew Koogler, July 31, 2012 @ 2:53 am

    I once read Jeff Bukantz say the WORST thing that happened in the 2000 Olympics is that the ref scolded the fencers for not saluting and shaking hands. They were celebrating winning medals and the ref almost killed everything.

  • Matthew Koogler, July 31, 2012 @ 2:57 am

    Also, I agree, Shin should have taken it. I even already wrote an angry letter to the FIE. But given the circumstances, Heidemann was the most tenacious and attacked relentlessly at the appropriate time. Nutty circumstances, but she proved the better competitor (today).

    It's a a philosophical point, but if you REALLY want to get technical, neither of them have a right to complain if they are going to fence to 5-5. Should work harder to get the score higher. Giving up a precious few seconds at the end of the period (non-combativity) could have meant a touch here. Lots of factors, way too many.

  • Samuel Gallagher Pelletier, July 31, 2012 @ 2:59 am

    I disagree with the last statement, they both worked hard, both of their strength played into each others weakness so its normal , especially in epee, for them to wait out more, whoever would have thrown themselves probably would have lost early.

  • Matthew Koogler, July 31, 2012 @ 3:01 am

    I understand. But at the end of the day, the high score wins, not the most passive. A 3-1 victory would have been more decisive here, ya know?

  • Matthew Koogler, July 31, 2012 @ 3:01 am

    I understand. But at the end of the day, the high score wins, not the most passive. A 3-1 victory would have been more decisive here, ya know?

  • In-Hye Lee, July 31, 2012 @ 3:41 am

    Country of wrong refereeing = England, Germany, Austria.
    London 2012 is the worst in the fencing is complete.
    the wwwwwwwwworst!

  • Hansol Cha, July 31, 2012 @ 4:10 am

    AGREE! ;(

  • HoYoung Lee, July 31, 2012 @ 4:22 am

    What a amazing sports! Sports that gives time controlling ability to judges, 1 second can be an hour if judges said so. And FIE won't say anything :D I should be a fencing judge…

  • PK Tam, July 31, 2012 @ 5:07 am

    @ Matthew Koogler
    "Mi Jang i defy anyone to be ashamed to get silver or gold at the olympics."
    Not like this. Her silver is forever asterisked, tainted.
    Remember what happened in the Tour de France when the defending champion crashed out because of malfeasance and the leader stopped the race? That's called sportsmanship.

  • PK Tam, July 31, 2012 @ 5:07 am

    @ Matthew Koogler
    "Mi Jang i defy anyone to be ashamed to get silver or gold at the olympics."
    Not like this. Her silver is forever asterisked, tainted.
    Remember what happened in the Tour de France when the defending champion crashed out because of malfeasance and the leader stopped the race? That's called sportsmanship.

  • Matthew Koogler, July 31, 2012 @ 5:22 am

    That is not the same at all. That's a catastrophe, an accident, an act of God, whatever you want to call it. There was also a high school track star who recently picked up her fellow competitor even though she was winning.

    This is a question of refereeing: Last year an umpire bought a car for a pitcher whose no-hitter he messed up because he blew a call. There is no asterisk there. THE GAME STILL STANDS. Not a no-hitter. Not with that umpire. Sorry. That's sport for you.

    Actually, I heard a rumor that Heidemann knew the clock would reset at 1 second. If that's true, she deserves the medal 100% and I actually admire that.

  • Matthew Koogler, July 31, 2012 @ 5:22 am

    That is not the same at all. That's a catastrophe, an accident, an act of God, whatever you want to call it. There was also a high school track star who recently picked up her fellow competitor even though she was winning.

    This is a question of refereeing: Last year an umpire bought a car for a pitcher whose no-hitter he messed up because he blew a call. There is no asterisk there. THE GAME STILL STANDS. Not a no-hitter. Not with that umpire. Sorry. That's sport for you.

    Actually, I heard a rumor that Heidemann knew the clock would reset at 1 second. If that's true, she deserves the medal 100% and I actually admire that.

  • Quan Pham, July 31, 2012 @ 5:39 am

    Here's what I found this evening on http://www.bbc.co.uk. Perhaps it will help clear up a few things as emotions ran high during that time: "Level with 2008 gold medallist Heidemann at 5-5 following nine minutes of action, Shin had priority, meaning she would have made the final if she had made it through the sudden-death minute without conceding a point.
    But referee Barbara Csar reset the time with one second left after Shin was guilty of an infringement and Heidemann scored the crucial point."

  • Quan Pham, July 31, 2012 @ 5:39 am

    Here's what I found this evening on http://www.bbc.co.uk. Perhaps it will help clear up a few things as emotions ran high during that time: "Level with 2008 gold medallist Heidemann at 5-5 following nine minutes of action, Shin had priority, meaning she would have made the final if she had made it through the sudden-death minute without conceding a point.
    But referee Barbara Csar reset the time with one second left after Shin was guilty of an infringement and Heidemann scored the crucial point."

  • PK Tam, July 31, 2012 @ 6:59 am

    @ MK – I guess win at all costs is what drove / drive athletes to cheat, or coaches to make their charges to cheat.

  • PK Tam, July 31, 2012 @ 6:59 am

    @ MK – I guess win at all costs is what drove / drive athletes to cheat, or coaches to make their charges to cheat.

  • PK Tam, July 31, 2012 @ 6:59 am

    @ MK – I guess win at all costs is what drove / drive athletes to cheat, or coaches to make their charges to cheat.

  • PK Tam, July 31, 2012 @ 6:59 am

    @ MK – I guess win at all costs is what drove / drive athletes to cheat, or coaches to make their charges to cheat.

  • PK Tam, July 31, 2012 @ 6:59 am

    @ MK – I guess win at all costs is what drove / drive athletes to cheat, or coaches to make their charges to cheat.

  • PK Tam, July 31, 2012 @ 6:59 am

    @ MK – I guess win at all costs is what drove / drive athletes to cheat, or coaches to make their charges to cheat.

  • PK Tam, July 31, 2012 @ 7:01 am

    It's called a time warp. That's the only feasible explanation.

  • Vivikta Cicero, July 31, 2012 @ 9:24 am

    Thanks for deleting my comment, Racists.

    http://youtu.be/hjoKggCUDog

  • Slawomir Jacek Koronkiewicz, July 31, 2012 @ 10:03 am

    This is The Olympics … what really worries me most is this devastating massage that has been sent to young fencers …having witnessed this FIE will have to introduce new regulations to avoid such situation in the future …(espacially with nowadays technology at hand)

  • Slawomir Jacek Koronkiewicz, July 31, 2012 @ 10:03 am

    This is The Olympics … what really worries me most is this devastating massage that has been sent to young fencers …having witnessed this FIE will have to introduce new regulations to avoid such situation in the future …(espacially with nowadays technology at hand)

  • Matthew Koogler, July 31, 2012 @ 11:02 am

    That's my point. No one cheated.

  • Steve Jones, July 31, 2012 @ 12:45 pm

    Even if Heidemannhad the reaction time of a 100m sprinter, then that's nearly half a second just to respond to the the "allez" four times. She jumped the command once and wasn't yellow-carded, and two of the attacks weren't direct. There is *no way* you can make four actions, including compound actions in half a second.

    She didn't cheat – she simply did the only thing she could and attack as long as the timer permitted. Shin did an excellent job of defense, but both were let down by the judging and the officals. Time should have been called whrn the clock ran down and the officials consulted before the hit was awarded. As soon as it was given to Heidemann it was only gopng to get mired in protests.

    Is now a good time to get rid of the passivity rule? Yes, it can sometimes be boring but often demonstrates the tactical skill involved in epee, and feeling out an opponent's defence. It's only 3 minutes and had one of them scored during this period then this clusterf*** might have been averted.

  • Eunsung Jung, July 31, 2012 @ 3:00 pm

    @ Matthew What do you want to insist on? As far as I know, the time keeper mistakenly missed stopping clock, which lead the umpire to reset the clock to 1. There was a mistake that should be corrected. Suppose that you take changes from cashier more than you deserve. It may be not illegal, but it is true that the deed is unconscientious. Will you call this an Act of God?

  • Matthew Koogler, July 31, 2012 @ 3:27 pm

    it's not the same. Money is not an action in time. this can't be reversed, and there wasn't wrong doing in the first place. It's not the same. It's not the same. It's not the same.

    Actually, it came to light today that both fencers were informed that the clock was malfunctioning, and BOTH fencers agreed to continue, further absolving Heidemann (not that there was anything to absolve).

    It's a terrible way to end the bout, but no one cheated, and no one was wrong. Great fighting, bad luck.

  • Slawomir Jacek Koronkiewicz, July 31, 2012 @ 7:57 pm

    This is The Olympics … what really worries me most is this devastating message that has been sent to young fencers …having witnessed this FIE will have to introduce new regulations to avoid such situation in the future …(espacially with nowadays technology at hand)

  • PK Tam, July 31, 2012 @ 8:47 pm

    Even FIFA is willing to change…

  • Brian Wright, July 31, 2012 @ 9:26 pm

    What a horrible decision. How timing works needs reviewed in light of this match.

  • Lee Sun Koo, August 1, 2012 @ 1:59 am

    I'm really angry about this decison as an Korean. How does this case occur in Olmypic that must be the fairest competion in the world? I don't understand……………..

  • Jun Seok Kim, August 1, 2012 @ 2:09 am

    WTF of refree!
    I think she got some bribe from german or she is great fan of german.
    People in every country knows, and there is great evident proof that confirm 1sec and 57 was passed.
    And there was no need to discuss about that for such long time!
    Austria and German stole our medal from Korea!
    How the global athlet is like this?
    Child may be better than Barbara Csar!

  • Lee Sun Koo, August 1, 2012 @ 2:11 am

    I'm really angry about this decision as a Korean. How does this case occur in Olympic that must be the fairest competition in the world?
    I can't understand………………

  • Slawomir Jacek Koronkiewicz, August 1, 2012 @ 9:05 am

    @MK Matthew …I believe you know the rules ..so you know what is the allowed distance for the fencers before the command … I believe Heidemann as an experienced fencer knows it too …. Shin stood where she was supposed to stay! If you cut the distance short … that's cheating.

  • Nelson Jo, August 1, 2012 @ 9:25 am

    I wrote this comment in 1second. It's a long time in London.

  • Nelson Jo, August 1, 2012 @ 9:25 am

    I wrote this comment in 1second. It's a long time in London.

  • Matthew Koogler, August 1, 2012 @ 12:06 pm

    Count how many times fencers have and continue to begin each touch with their feet OVER the en guard line. This is also a "rule" but it's the ref's job to manage the game. I don't think anyone in Heidemann's situation would give an inch of ground–I know I wouldn't. I would make the ref back me up.

    Who here has heard the phrase "You're really fencing two opponents?" Heidemann applied this beautifully.

  • Matthew Koogler, August 1, 2012 @ 12:21 pm

    It's also against the rules to delay the bout but it's incredible how many shoes come untied when an opponent gains momentum and scores a few touches. Ref's job to manage this. Fencers job to exploit this. Not cheating.

  • Slawomir Jacek Koronkiewicz, August 1, 2012 @ 1:31 pm

    sorry to say … your posts are biased Matthew … go practice how to exploit ways of cheating and get away with it … at this point a dialogue with You is pointless.

  • Matthew Koogler, August 1, 2012 @ 2:04 pm

    Slawomir Jacek Koronkiewicz Tell me where cheating occurred. I know plenty of people who would take their ball and go home and call it "cheating" because they dont' like how the game is going. That's what people want here.

    It's shameful that people want to disparage Heidemann for competing admirably in a contest that was intended to be managed differently. Both contestants deserve utmost respect. If Shin was not so heart-broken, I would guess we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Here's the thing: It would be cheating if she willfully broke the rules, but both fencers RELY on the referee to set the bout to rights.

    I have fenced plenty of times when I've got my opponent on the end of the strip, and I want to put as much pressure on them as I can. So I intentionally set up too close. That's right, INTENTIONALLY! Why? Because I KNOW the referee is going to back me up, and put me exactly where I need to be. Far better than to back up too much, as I am allowed to be rather far away.

    Heidemann competed like an Olympian, and people want to tarnish her for that.

    The referee IS the instrument of measure here. That's why it's not cheating.

    It would be cheating if she willfully broke the rules and tried to get away with it. If she rigged her weapon, or if she doped. Heidemann did what she was supposed to do.

  • Matthew Koogler, August 1, 2012 @ 2:04 pm

    biased?

  • Slawomir Jacek Koronkiewicz, August 1, 2012 @ 2:21 pm

    @MK read all the above carefully and watch the video … she was asked to back up …. and she didn't.

  • Matthew Koogler, August 1, 2012 @ 2:25 pm

    aaaand the referee said "Allez." The referee failed to back her up.

  • Matthew Koogler, August 1, 2012 @ 2:26 pm

    Referee's job: not start the bout till both parties are good and ready. Hence the "en guard" and the "pret"

  • Matthew Koogler, August 1, 2012 @ 2:27 pm

    Look it's all accounted for. Gold medal bout is stressful. People slipped up. But nothing was done in poor faith. I am not denying that this is not up to standard, but I object to vilifying Heidemann.

  • Slawomir Jacek Koronkiewicz, August 1, 2012 @ 2:30 pm

    knowing she's too close … acknowledging its ok and not backing up and getting away with it …. plus getting extra time for no reason …

  • Matthew Koogler, August 1, 2012 @ 2:35 pm

    Fencers use the ref to set the distance. should have set the distance right. is this not true? even if i extend my blade and my opponent extends theirs, i need someone to tell me if I'm close or far enough away.

    I rely on the ref to do this, so does everyone else. It's how the game is done. It was not done here.

    And of course it's not her fault for the time.

    Where's the cheating?

  • Matthew Koogler, August 1, 2012 @ 2:41 pm

  • Slawomir Jacek Koronkiewicz, August 1, 2012 @ 3:26 pm

    if it wasn't cheating then You call it …what was it ? a setup ? the referee had got a video at hand to watch …. what was it then … You tell me. if it was You instead of Shin …would You aknowledge the defeat ? It's just pathetic !
    You say "I intentionally set up too close. That's right, INTENTIONALLY! Why? Because I KNOW the referee is going to back me up, and put me exactly where I need to be." and then You back up … and that's ok.
    Was referee an amateur ? Is Heidemann a beginner?
    She didn't back up and scored …. If it was You who gets hit … would that be rigth ? or would that be a cheat ?

  • Matthew Koogler, August 1, 2012 @ 3:35 pm

    blown call bro. and a major screw-up all around. The ref was not an amateur, that's the bitch of it. It shouldn't have happened. Not Heidemann's fault.

    In fact, looks like the IOC is acknowledging it. Note that they are trying to appease Shin instead of punish Heidemann. If Heidemann did anything wrong, they would easily stripped the match/medal. Perfectly allowed. But they aren't. Because even though they screwed up, they know they can't punish her. Nor should they.

    Is it fair? No… but then I did get myself into this mess with a tied score on the wrong end of the piste… it's reasonable to conclude the clock was faulty for both fencers.

    If I got hit, that would suck. I would be upset. But my anger would be at the referee for not backing Heidemann up. I should have put my hand up and said "Distance, s'il vous plait!"

  • PK Tam, August 1, 2012 @ 4:00 pm

    You don't have to be KOR to be "bemused" with this decision by the DT and the FIE.
    Remember the old adage, "Just not only has to be done, it also has to be seen to be done." ..which in case it hasn't been done, IMHO.
    Compare this to the fiasco with what's happened in badminton. The ref black-carded the double players for "not playing to their capability", in fencing, we call it "favouring an opponant", he withdrew the black card after the teams protested. But the Badminton International did the right thing and booted those 4 pairs out, thereby upholding the ref's original ruling.
    The audience, who have paid huge amount of money, blacked-carded the players by booing them.

  • Slawomir Jacek Koronkiewicz, August 1, 2012 @ 4:31 pm

    well I guess your definition of cheating is a bit different then mine …. the cheating accured when she knew she was too close and didn't back up …. and scored.She obviously acknowledged the score as if nothing wrong happened.Despite the fact that she got away with it the act of cheating remains couse she knew she was too close …. and setting herself up too close and not correcting her position …. is enough for me to call it a cheat.The referee by not interfering just made it worse.
    besides it all took more then just one second !
    That's why Heidemann has got her "mia culpa" in all this and she knows it ….

  • Matthew Koogler, August 1, 2012 @ 5:05 pm

    I say it's not cheating because the referee is the one responsible for setting the center and ensuring the fencers are at the right distance. Do you not acknowledge it's the ref's job to set them at the appropriate distance?

    It's illegal to touch each other in fencing but it happens every bout. If you'd like to draw the line arbitarily here, then I guess I can't stop you. And if you'd like to take some credit away from a medalist for that reason, then I wonder if you've ever fenced a bout or otherwise relate to this sport. You seem to know something of the game yourself, I'm amazed at this position you're taking.

    If my uniform is undone or I am not en guard, and the referee says "fence" and I fence. Then I am cheating. If I should be ashamed of my olympic medal because of that, then I guess there is nothing to say.

    You acknowledged several times that this whole ordeal took more than one second. I recently read a part of the rulebook that addresses this:

    If there is a malfunction with the time-keeping equipment, the referee's job is to estimate the amount of time left.

    Much like added time in football/soccer, this is not an accurate measure. Come next Olympics it damn well better be. But for now, no rules were broken on the time aspect, just poorly managed.

    You want blood here, and it's not going to happen. The only fault is a mistake at the bout management. If Shin made the hit, Heidemann could say Shin was not appriately off the strip. Or that the referee should have backed them up so that SHE wouldn't get hit!

  • Matthew Koogler, August 1, 2012 @ 5:05 pm

    I say it's not cheating because the referee is the one responsible for setting the center and ensuring the fencers are at the right distance. Do you not acknowledge it's the ref's job to set them at the appropriate distance?

    It's illegal to touch each other in fencing but it happens every bout. If you'd like to draw the line arbitarily here, then I guess I can't stop you. And if you'd like to take some credit away from a medalist for that reason, then I wonder if you've ever fenced a bout or otherwise relate to this sport. You seem to know something of the game yourself, I'm amazed at this position you're taking.

    If my uniform is undone or I am not en guard, and the referee says "fence" and I fence. Then I am cheating. If I should be ashamed of my olympic medal because of that, then I guess there is nothing to say.

    You acknowledged several times that this whole ordeal took more than one second. I recently read a part of the rulebook that addresses this:

    If there is a malfunction with the time-keeping equipment, the referee's job is to estimate the amount of time left.

    Much like added time in football/soccer, this is not an accurate measure. Come next Olympics it damn well better be. But for now, no rules were broken on the time aspect, just poorly managed.

    You want blood here, and it's not going to happen. The only fault is a mistake at the bout management. If Shin made the hit, Heidemann could say Shin was not appriately off the strip. Or that the referee should have backed them up so that SHE wouldn't get hit!

  • Slawomir Jacek Koronkiewicz, August 1, 2012 @ 6:48 pm

    my dear … if – from what I say here – you draw a conclusion that I want blood here (which is an absurd) … then from your point of view I draw a conclusion that a fencer is not necessarily to obey the rules and as long as it is not noticed by a referee its ok. ( the attitude of "pushing my way through")
    well then I give up …. you won …..
    my disrespect.
    I just hope You are not planning to become a coach.
    Don't forget this is The Olympics here and thousands of young
    fencers from all over the world are watching it!
    (and the facts are … SHE not only didn't obey the rules as far as distance is concerned but SHE even didn't respect the referee's order to step back .. and launched her attack – it shouldn't have happened! .. how do you call this? falstart? for a falstart runners get disqualified!)
    I do not want blood here … I just stand here for a sportsmanship !
    and it all could have been revised ….
    Shin did not do anything I would call "disobeying the rules"
    and the victory goes to Shin
    Shame !

  • Slobodan Wiaji, August 1, 2012 @ 8:04 pm

    Excuse me, but which error did the referee exactly commit? the entire bout – not just some excerpts of Heidemann's attacks – can be watched in the following video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I5YyYPo4tk

    At 2:48, after yet another double score was hit, the referee called "halt", and the clock was still showing 0:01. At 2:53, *despite the interruption in the bout* you can hear the clock's acustic signal as it went to 0:00. Fencing rule t.32-2: "Should there be a failure of the clock or an error by the timekeeper, the referee must estimate how much fencing time is left." Per this rule, the referee added the minimum possible time, one second. Within this one second, Heidemann attacks and manages the winning hit.

    Please tell me how else the referee was supposed to conform to the rules: Should she have declared the bout to be over after Heidemann's attack at 2:48, with time still left on the clock? Should she have ignored the clock continuing despite the interruption she ordered? What call would you suggest she have made?

  • Matthew Koogler, August 1, 2012 @ 8:23 pm

    No no, that's not what I said–I said (repeatedly now) that the referee is the measure for distance. I intentionally crowd my opponent knowing that it will be fixed. Because I trust the referee to set it right. It's not poor sportsmanship to do this. It's good fencing.

    I know you really don't want blood here, but I haven't disagreed with anything insofar as rules were broken and protocol not followed.

    You unfairly insist that Heidemann change anything she was doing.There is shame, but not with Heidemann. I don't have time to go through all the video to see the hundreds of infractions in all the other bouts. It just seemed significant here because of when it happened. The same conventions were followed everywhere. A bad call yes, but a call nonetheless.

    I AGREE! that none of this should have happened. However, the rulebook address a false start in track and field just like there are many rules that address many infractions here. It's a different kind of contest thought–truly apples and oranges.

    I think it's unreasonable to demand perfection in a situation where several significant decisions needed to be made in the space of 1 second of playing time. Nothing was made in bad faith here and I suspect you know it.

  • Slawomir Jacek Koronkiewicz, August 2, 2012 @ 1:25 pm

    It can be easily noticed that in all her 3 attempts Heidemann intentionly sets herself up way too close (should be yellow-carded at least) …. Shin has been simply robbed by both a referee and Heidemann
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=wIIqpVSg7e8

  • Matthew Koogler, August 3, 2012 @ 2:20 am

    I agree, she should have been carded. I agree, they were too close. I agree, the bout was improper. I agree, it's heartbreaking for Shin. I agree I agree I agree. thank you for at last acknowledging that the referee had SOMETHING to do with this.

    Were these mistakes made in bad faith?

  • Matthew Koogler, August 3, 2012 @ 2:27 am

    Look at the photo again. Shin has at least another foot of space and is not checking her weapon distance either. That red circle is irrelevant because neither fencer is checking distance. Shin could go farther. They are both "guilty" (except they aren't, because that's not how the rule or this sport works…..)

  • Claudia Boldt McIntyre, August 6, 2012 @ 1:01 am

    It was a shame it took so long to get to a decission! No fencer at the Olympics or any other event will say, Oh I think you won. They all deal with good and bad decissions made by a referee.

  • Claudia Boldt McIntyre, August 6, 2012 @ 1:01 am

    It was a shame it took so long to get to a decission! No fencer at the Olympics or any other event will say, Oh I think you won. They all deal with good and bad decissions made by a referee.

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